Question

...
Kostas Oikonomou

Limited Scope example as Begging the Question

The "Example 2" of begging the question I think fits better under the limited scope

The example is 'The reason everyone wants the new "Slap Me Silly Elmo" doll is because this is the hottest toy of the season!' and the explanation says 'it is simply rewording the claim'. I think it should be moved to the Limited Scope examples. 

asked on Friday, Aug 05, 2022 11:30:51 AM by Kostas Oikonomou

Top Categories Suggested by Community

Comments

...
0
TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

I think you have a point.

The description for limited scope is:

"The theory doesn't explain anything other than the phenomenon it explains (that one thing), and at best, is likely to be incomplete.  This is often done by just redefining a term or phrase rather than explaining it."

And the example seems to fit that! The claim is merely repeated in other words, instead of being explained.

posted on Friday, Aug 05, 2022 07:27:32 PM
...
1
Kostas Oikonomou writes:

[To Rationalissimus of the Elenchus]

Also the definition of Limited Scope is a bit convoluted. It says "doesn't explain anything other than the phenomenon it explains". So, which is it? Does it "explain" the phenomenon or not? The following sentence of the definition though, clarifies it more. So, why do we keep the first part? Does it add anything or does it make it worse?

My attempt on defining more clearly the Limited Scope (by combining and rephrasing what is already written) would be:

" Failing to explain why a phenomenon happened, and instead simply restating what happened using different words. It is not an explanation if 'because' can be replaced with a phrase like 'in other words'. "

[ login to reply ] posted on Friday, Aug 05, 2022 08:40:47 PM
...
1
TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To Kostas Oikonomou]

I noticed that too.

"Theory X is used to explain Y

Theory X only explains Y and nothing else"

...well that's pretty normal isn't it? Besides, as you observe, it doesn't actually explain anything.

I wonder what Dr Bo thinks.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 03:56:11 AM
...
1
Kostas Oikonomou writes:
[To Rationalissimus of the Elenchus]

I was checking the failure to elucidate . There it says:
"Usually, out of fear of embarassment, we accept confusing definitions as legitimate elucidations, that is WE PRETEND the term that was defined is NOW CLEAR TO US." I wonder, how many fallacy definitions (if we are honest) fall under that category. And I get that some of them can be difficult to be described and are best described by examples but in any case we shouldn't PRETEND something is clear to us when it's not. 

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 01:56:29 PM
...
1
TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To Kostas Oikonomou]

I suspect it is more than we'd both like to admit ;)

Some time ago, Dr Bo mentioned he was working on a new version of Logically Fallacious*. Perhaps he'll clarify some of the old definitions, and get rid of any fallacies that potentially overlap. That should help to deal with the failure to elucidate problem.

*assuming my memory (which isn't the most reliable) isn't failing me here

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 07:16:31 PM
...
0
Jorge writes:
[To Kostas Oikonomou]

I think what is meant here with the word "explain" is what the arguer is thinking. The person committing the fallacy thinks they're explaining the phenomenon while they're only explaining that and nothing else. It sort of like a wake up call to re-think what the arguer thinks about what an explanation is. I think your definition is accurate by the way.

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 10:50:51 PM
...
2
Bo Bennett, PhD writes:

Hi guys. I will review this thread carefully when I have some time. I update the website in real time when I made changes, then update the book about once a year. It is about that time.

posted on Sunday, Aug 07, 2022 07:41:04 AM
...
0
TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Great! Thanks for dropping in, Doc.

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Aug 07, 2022 02:10:27 PM

Want to get notified of all questions as they are asked? Update your mail preferences and turn on "Instant Notification."

Uncomfortable Ideas: Facts don't care about feelings. Science isn't concerned about sensibilities. And reality couldn't care less about rage.

This is a book about uncomfortable ideas—the reasons we avoid them, the reasons we shouldn’t, and discussion of dozens of examples that might infuriate you, offend you, or at least make you uncomfortable.

Many of our ideas about the world are based more on feelings than facts, sensibilities than science, and rage than reality. We gravitate toward ideas that make us feel comfortable in areas such as religion, politics, philosophy, social justice, love and sex, humanity, and morality. We avoid ideas that make us feel uncomfortable. This avoidance is a largely unconscious process that affects our judgment and gets in the way of our ability to reach rational and reasonable conclusions. By understanding how our mind works in this area, we can start embracing uncomfortable ideas and be better informed, be more understanding of others, and make better decisions in all areas of life.

Get 20% off this book and all Bo's books*. Use the promotion code: websiteusers

* This is for the author's bookstore only. Applies to autographed hardcover, audiobook, and ebook.

Get the Book

Answers

...
Jorge
0

The way I understand limited scope is that it is a fallacy that proposes a theory to explain something, but the theory only explains that phenomenon and nothing else (and perhaps would be a subclass of question begging).

In the "Slap Me Silly Elmo" example, there is no proposed theory to explain something. It is a claim made about how things are, namely, everyone wants that doll (or "this is the hottest toy of the season"). Side note at the end.

If we develop a theory, however, to explain such a trend, we might commit the limited scope fallacy. 

Ex: The reason everyone wants the new "Slap Me Silly Elmo" doll is that everyone thinks it is the hottest toy of the season. 

The proposed theory is that everyone thinks that the toy is the hottest toy of the season, and that would explain why everyone wants it. We can write this example in argument form:

1. Everyone wants the new toy. (phenomenon)
2. Everyone thinks it is the hottest toy of the season (theory)
3. Therefore, line 2 explains line 1.

Notice how thinking that the new toy is the hottest toy of the season doesn't mean that you want it. So this might not be a limited scope fallacy. But if we add this: "everyone who thinks that it is the hottest toy of the season wants the toy," then we have a limited scope fallacy.

As a side note, we could always argue that everything is a theory. I remember reading about this in an intro to philosophy book. Under this notion, stating how things are would be theories.

answered on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 10:25:34 PM by Jorge

Jorge Suggested These Categories

Comments

...
0
Kostas Oikonomou writes:

The criterion for Limited Scope is if you can substitute "because" with "in other words".

The phrase "everyone wants the new 'Slap Me Silly Elmo' doll is because this is the hottest toy of the season" can be expressed as "everyone wants the new "Slap Me Silly Elmo" doll; in other words this is the hottest toy of the season". 

"The hottest toy" = "the toy most customers want" (if it's all of them, even better).

In other words the two sentences express the same meaning only with different words, and that's why it's the Limited Scope fallacy. It's not an explanation if you just reword the same claim.

posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 10:45:17 PM
...
0
Jorge writes:

[To Kostas Oikonomou]

I don't think that's the criterion for the limited scope fallacy. What I got is that the replacement works to avoid the fallacy; it clarifies the explanation. For example, if we do the replacement in the doll example, we may consider the arguer as trying to clarify the explanation as to what is meant by "people wanting the toy," namely, we might mean that it is the hottest toy of the season. I also think that the replacement may be an explanation even if there's rewording. This is because we could clarify something using different words. 

[ login to reply ] posted on Saturday, Aug 06, 2022 11:30:04 PM
...
1
TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

It seems limited scope just restates the claim in other words, rather than 'explaining' anything.

Example:

"People often make hasty decisions (A) because they don’t take enough time to consider their choices (B)."

B is just A, written in other words. There's no 'explanation' anywhere, only the illusion of one.

Limited depth is similar. Example:

"My dog (A) goes through our garbage because he is a dog (B)."

A is a subset of B, therefore A does X. This also isn't an explanation, but instead of restating the claim in different language, it just appeals to membership of a category.

I think the confusion is coming from the way limited scope is described ("the theory explains only the phenomenon it explains" is strangely worded, so it is hard to see where the fallacy is).

For instance, if we give a better (not perfect!) explanation for why people make hasty decisions:

"People often make hasty decisions (A) because they feel pressure to commit to things quickly, out of fear of appearing indecisive (B)."

Now rather than restating A as B, we've actually explained something, by giving the effect (A) a cause (B). 

posted on Sunday, Aug 07, 2022 04:15:02 AM
...
1
Jorge writes:

[To Rationalissimus of the Elenchus]

Perhaps limiting the scope is a way of begging the question. We could prove this if we agree that every theory that explains something, and only that, is a re-statement of the phenomenon but using different words; that is, if X is a theory that explains Y and only Y, then X is Y. 

Proof:

1. Theory X is proposed to explain Y. 
2. X explains Y and nothing else.
3. Therefore, Y is true.

Premise 2 is the same then as saying that X is Y. Then the conclusion appears in line 2.

The converse, every question begging fallacy results from limiting the explanatory scope of a theory, may be true if we agree that every claim on the way things are is also a theory.

I'll add my take on what I think limiting scope is.

I'm gonna take an intuitive approach to what a theory is: gathering pieces of information or guesses (preferably educated guesses) that would explain some phenomenon. 

Example: Ice-cream sales went up during the summer. The reason for that is that the temperature raises during the summer. That's when people take time off and therefore there are more tourists around. Since the temperature is high, people want to cool off. Ice-cream is great to cool off! 

Here, the theory explains why ice-cream sales went up, the cause for those sales, and the cause of the cause. For example, the cause of the sales are more tourists being around but the cause of that is the time when there are more people available to take the time off. We could also say that the theory explains why people want ice-cream; to cool off. So the explanatory scope of the theory is pretty wide. 

We may limit the scope by removing pieces of information or guesses to the theory. 

Example 2: Ice-cream sales went up during the summer. The reason for that is because there are more tourists around. 

This theory explains the why ice-cream sales went up, there are more tourists around, and the cause of that; more tourists means more people that may buy ice-cream. The explanatory scope doesn't reach why more people means more sales nor why people want ice-cream. 

Example 3: Ice-cream sales went up during the summer. The reason is because more money came in.

This theory explains why ice-cream sales went up, and nothing else. Why did more money came in? We can only guess because there were more tourists around. Or because temperature rose and more of the locals wanted ice-cream. 

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Aug 07, 2022 06:24:05 PM