Person A claims that how do you know indonesia exists? And Person B claims the I have visited. Then person A claims that how do you know it exists? person B claims Because I have experienced it. And then person A claims that if you have experienced indonesia exists therefore ghost exists because I have experienced it.
asked on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 08:55:12 AM by Fearnone
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Kaidenwrites:
Here is your story in my own words.
Person A (PA) asks how Person B (PB) knows that Indonesia exists. PB says that he has empirical knowledge of Indonesia; he experienced Indonesia. PA does not think PB has empirical knowledge that Indonesia exists. PA is in fact skeptical about empirical knowledge in general. Here is why he is skeptical of this kind of knowledge. He has had ghost-like experiences. But he knows that ghosts do not exist. So, experience is not enough to determine that something exists. In this case, experience is not enough, PA claims, to tell PB that Indonesia exists.
Did I understand your example correctly?
posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 05:29:03 PM
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Fearnonewrites: [To Kaiden]
If you can believe that indonesia exists because of experience same way we can believe jesus walked on water through experience of people
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 11:22:38 PM
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Fearnonewrites: [To Kaiden]
Not objecting but just telling
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:29:44 AM
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This is a question of epistemology . The argument is strong... if one claims we know Indonesia exists because they "experienced it", then it is reasonable to accept that one knows ghosts exist for the same reason. Now, any reasonable person wouldn't accept one's personal experience as proof of ghosts' existing, so we can conclude that there is a problem with "experience" as a way to know something exists—which is the point of this argument.
"Experience" is a vague term that often embodies one or more senses, but sometimes none. For example, we can experience bliss just from imagination (i.e., dream, meditation, prayer, etc.). This feeling (experience) in no way verifies the existence of what is being imagined, which is why experience is not a reasonable way to claim to know something exists or not.
answered on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 10:41:13 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD
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account no longer existswrites:
What if the person claims that happiness and bliss is just imagination?
posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:14:43 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To fearnone]
It is in that happiness is a state of mind.
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:36:07 PM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
Thanks for reply
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:37:48 PM
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account no longer existswrites:
And let me put this in a similar senario
Sam claims: Jesus walked in water!
Shaun claims: Prove it that jesus walked from water.
Sam claims: Because we have many eyewitness
Shaun claims: proves nothing.
Sam claims: how do you know that indonesia exists?
Shaun: because there are many people that can verify it because we have experienced indonesia and we have pic.
Sam claims: how do you know that pictures are realiable and not photoshopped and are not from other places?
Shaun claims: because many people live there they winessed it and they can verify that.
Sam claims: if you can realy on this experience then why not this that jesus walked from water?.
Can these agruments be deconstructed or is it a strong claim and cannot refutable.
posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:35:44 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To fearnone]
This is all just word play. One needs to be precise when another is attempting to equate horrible evidence with strong evidence. Sam is obviously unable to either understand or acknowledge quality of evidence and Shaun is unable to communicate this effectively. Again, this is more of a problem with epistemology than fallacies.
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:41:22 PM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
Can you pls tell that in details what are you telling and what did sam and shaun did?
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 12:53:25 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To fearnone]
I won't go line by line, but we will start here:
"Because we have many eyewitness" (to Jesus walking on water).
No we don't. What we have is a book that says people saw it. This is categorically different from say millions of people who, can all be named (not anonymous), and are alive today, who have seen Indonesia.
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 01:06:47 PM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
Btw thanks for the answer
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 01:25:52 PM
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Fearnonewrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
What if person A tells book is written by people
[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Jun 28, 2021 10:49:57 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To Fearnone]
I don't understand. Perhaps you can put this in an example.
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:15:04 AM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
You claim that there is a book saying that people saw jesus walking on water. Book was written by people, therefore book contains eyewitness of people saying these thing. Btw I am not objecting just an opinion what if the person says this
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:18:03 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To fearnone]
Harry Potter is a book written by people. The book claims Voldemort exists. This doesn't mean there are eyewitness accounts to Voldemort.
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:21:33 AM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
Okay
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:22:10 AM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
What if the person says that,
Science book says micro oragnisms exists and scientists have eyewitnesses doesnt mean they have eyewitnesses
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:27:43 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhDwrites: [To fearnone]
Again, these are religious arguments... really not the right place for this.
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:28:39 AM
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account no longer existswrites: [To Bo Bennett, PhD]
Can you please give your answer in detail?
[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 29, 2021 06:31:51 AM
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