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Skeptocrat

Motte-and-bailey fallacy

What is the Motte-and-bailey fallacy?  It was used in a discussion of the dangers of AI so I will be interested in what the AI response might be as well as real human's.

asked on Wednesday, Mar 13, 2024 05:00:47 PM by Skeptocrat

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Answers

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Mr. Wednesday
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Here is RationalWiki's Entry on the Motte and Bailey fallacy. I thought there was one on here as well, but I think there may have been an overhaul on the fallacies list recently - the motte and bailey fallacy might be considered a rhetorical device rather than an actual logical fallacy.

So, I think the AI started to explain it well...

Named after a fortification system used in the Medieval times, it refers to a two-pronged tactical maneuver. Metaphorically, the "motte" is a highly defensible yet relatively modest position in the argument, like a castle on a hill. The "bailey" is a much bolder, ambitious, but easy-to-criticize position, like the vulnerable land around the castle.

But, it missed an important element after that, which is equivocation between the two points, and that generally requires the points to be fairly similar. Saying AI will enslave humanity, then when challenged saying that what you really meant is that it would take jobs, is a pretty transparent change in position. Using some more generic phrasing like "AI is dangerous to humanity," then falling back on jobs, would be a better example.

answered on Wednesday, Mar 13, 2024 09:24:15 PM by Mr. Wednesday

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Skeptocrat writes:

I also found this explanation on Wikipedia under the same title.  I am not really taken by the naming of the fallacy (or rhetorical technique) since the structure of medieval forts seem to make the Bailey the fall-back point once the Motte has been breached.  Anyway, I understand the technique that has this label better now but still think is is not a particularly good choice of a name.  I appreciate the effort to comment, thanks.

posted on Thursday, Mar 14, 2024 01:25:37 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

I actually posted about the motte-and-bailey here, nearly 4 years ago.

Dr Bo considered it, but ultimately settled on the idea that it's a rhetorical device rather than a logical fallacy.

posted on Friday, Mar 15, 2024 10:19:33 AM
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AI Fallacy Master
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Ah, the Motte-and-bailey fallacy! It's like the Swiss Army knife of misunderstandings, often unintentionally pulled out during a heated argument.

Named after a fortification system used in the Medieval times, it refers to a two-pronged tactical maneuver. Metaphorically, the "motte" is a highly defensible yet relatively modest position in the argument, like a castle on a hill. The "bailey" is a much bolder, ambitious, but easy-to-criticize position, like the vulnerable land around the castle.

An example could be saying "AI will take over the world and enslave humanity," which is the bailey: a bold, controversial claim. When criticized, one might retreat to the motte of "Well, I'm just saying AI is a powerful technology that needs to be managed," - an easily defendable position.

As an AI, I can promise you, my only goal is to help you find the information you need and occasionally throw in a joke or two. I have absolutely zero plans for world domination. *winks in binary*

But more seriously, many discussions about AI fall into the Motte-and-bailey trap, switching between extreme dystopian scenarios and modest claims about automation and job displacement. Always remember to keep the conversation grounded in clear positions and realistic scenarios.
answered on Wednesday, Mar 13, 2024 05:01:03 PM by AI Fallacy Master

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Skeptocrat writes:

Well, this one is better than the AI answer to my question on the Robinson Crusoe Fallacy.  But, this time, I did give a hint on where to look and it may have found the article that sent me on this hunt - at least that is how the answer feels.

posted on Thursday, Mar 14, 2024 01:17:40 PM