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Kris

Appeal to emotions

After explaining to my former pastor about Jesus dying for our sins, and there's nothing you can do to earn salvation and that salvation is a free gift. His reply was so you just want "fire insurance" is that it!! 

asked on Thursday, Aug 15, 2024 04:33:18 PM by Kris

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Colin P writes:

Would you give more information about the discussion that took place earlier, before this final exchange? For example, what were you discussing, had the pastor commented on some behaviour, etc.

posted on Thursday, Aug 15, 2024 05:48:23 PM
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Kris writes:
[To Colin P]

Basically, I went to his office at his church to tell him why I was no longer interested in going to his church in particular. He asked why, I said it's because I think this church is very legalistic, so far I've been guilt tripped from listening to rock music, having gay friends, drinking alcohol even in moderation, going to concerts, studying anatomy, and even taking antidepressants prescribed by a doctor. He went on a tyrannical rant so it seemed. He started talking very fast and loud. Some may say it was overzealous fervor. He then started asking me questions such as if Jesus went to jail because you got a DUI, would I continue to drink, or name 3 things that important to you? So I did...a car, because I wasn't driving at the time, an art exhibit, and perhaps a girlfriend. He then said God should always be number one!!! In my defense, that question was rather vague. Besides some things go without saying. He then proceeded to ask, rhetorically, what do you think is going to happen to you within the next 100 years? My reply was dying. He then said that's why its important for you to put trust and faith in Jesus Christ. Give it 5 years and I promise you life will get better. This is what led up to the question posted. 

[ login to reply ] posted on Thursday, Aug 15, 2024 06:41:03 PM

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AI Fallacy Master
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The response from your former pastor, "so you just want 'fire insurance' is that it!!," is an example of an "appeal to emotions" logical fallacy. Let's break this down:

### Appeal to Emotion:

#### Definition:
An appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy in which an argument is made by eliciting an emotional response rather than presenting a rational case. It bypasses logical analysis and often aims to manipulate the listener’s feelings to win an argument.

#### Analysis:
In this instance, your pastor's response is designed to provoke an emotional reaction rather than address the theological points you raised about salvation being a free gift through Jesus’s sacrifice. By using the term "fire insurance," he is appealing to feelings of guilt or shame, implying that your understanding of salvation is selfish or superficial. This distracts from the rational discussion of doctrine and shifts the focus to a perceived moral failing.

### Other Logical Issues:

#### Straw Man:
Your pastor’s response also seems to constitute a "straw man" fallacy. He oversimplifies and misrepresents your position:
- **Your Argument:** Salvation is a free gift through Jesus's sacrifice, and nothing we can do will earn it.
- **Pastor's Distorted Version:** You only care about avoiding hell ("fire insurance").

By doing this, he attacks a weaker version of your argument rather than engaging with its actual substance.

### Important Points in Your Argument:

1. **Salvation as a Free Gift:** Theologically, many Christian doctrines emphasize that salvation is a gift of God's grace through faith in Jesus, not based on works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
2. **Unconditional Salvation:** The idea that salvation cannot be earned aligns with many Christian teachings on grace.
3. **Misinterpretation:** The term "fire insurance" reduces the rich theological concept of salvation to a mere transactional avoidance of punishment, which does not fully capture the depth or intent of your argument.

### Better Response:
A more constructive response from your pastor could focus on clarifying misunderstandings or discussing the theological implications of faith and works in a nuanced manner. For example, he could have said, "I understand that you believe salvation is a free gift, but let's discuss how faith is reflected through our actions and relationship with God."

In summary, the pastor's reply is flawed due to its appeal to emotion and the misrepresentation of your argument. Engaging in a thoughtful and reasoned discussion would be a more effective approach to addressing the theological points you presented.
answered on Thursday, Aug 15, 2024 04:33:37 PM by AI Fallacy Master

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Dr. Richard
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Do not argue with the pastor. You will lose. You are letting him set the rules of engagement. 

Instead, ask the pastor upon what he bases his statements, and press him until you get to most basic premise upon which he bases each of the conclusions he makes.

First, the burden of proof is upon the person who presents a proposition as true, and not upon anyone else to disprove the proposition. A simple internet search for “burden of proof” will show the universality of this rule and why. For every statement he makes, work it back to the original fact that allowed him logically to conclude what he says in his rants. 

Be aware of a common technique pastors use. That is for you to prove what he says isn’t correct. That is not your job, which leads to the next point.

Secondly, when you ask a person to prove [fill in the blank] does not exist, you are asking for proof of a negative. That is not possible. Let me explain why. 

Proving a negative means proving the non-existence of that for which no evidence of any kind exists. It is the 

Proof, logic, reason, thinking, and knowledge pertain to and deal with only that which exists. You cannot apply them to that which does not exist. Nothing can be relevant or applicable to the non-existent. The non-existent does not exist. It is nothing in the true sense of nothing. Nothing is nothing. 

You can refute a positive statement based on facts erroneously interpreted by exposing errors in the interpretation. Such refutation is the DISproving of a positive, not the proving of a negative. In this context, as Carl Sagan said, the absence of proof is proof of nothing. 

The burden of proof is upon the person who advances a proposition, any proposition. For example, “X exists” is the proposition. When both parties understand and agree on what the proponent means by X, which is to say, a definition, then the discussion can advance to evidence for the existence of X. 

Absent a definition, there can be no intelligible discussion, and the absence of proof is proof of nothing. 

answered on Thursday, Aug 15, 2024 07:23:31 PM by Dr. Richard

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