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Erica

Dungeons and Dragons

The creator of this website might be familiar with this controversy since he was an 80's child. My mother moved to this country in the early 80's during the controversy with Dungeons and Dragons. She is warning me about playing this game since she remembers all the reports about suicide and devil worshipping associated with it back then. We've gotten into arguments about it before. This is a paraphrase of what we say to each other. I don't remember the exact details but its the gist of our conversations. 

My mom basically says that this game is dangerous, caused people to commit suicides, had devil worshipping in it. I think she mentioned that messing with that stuff could "send me to hell"(or something like that). Wondered why I was arguing with her because she was there and I wasn't. (I will admit that I'm biased because I don't completely trust her personal experience and I think she was brainwashed as a teen.) She pokes fun a little bit at me trying to look for evidence because "there's probably cases of people doing bad stuff and it just wasn't reported on, or nobody knows about it" (which is giving me conspiracy vibes).

I've argued with her basically saying that the stuff that the media said a lot of the time was wrong or exaggerated and there is no evidence that the reported suicides were directly connected to the game. That there was no evidence of devil worshiping, or that any "devil worshipping" was probably roleplay itself and not like pagan worshipping. 

I am open to the idea that I could be not thinking about this critically enough, being unreasonable, being stubborn, biased, or irrational. I am AWFUL at critical thinking and I want to get better. Can you also see if there is anything right or wrong with what my mother is saying? I don't want to COMPLETELY discredit her experience with her being on this earth for way longer than I have been. She is also a better critical thinker than I am so I could be missing A LOT of things. Thank you. 

asked on Thursday, Jan 18, 2024 01:14:28 AM by Erica

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Mr. Wednesday writes:

I think TrappedPrior has covered the fallacies pretty well, but to add a bit of context to the argument:

I never got into D&D, but I am pretty familiar with the history of Magic: The Gathering. Both games are owned by Wizards of the Coast, which currently is a subsidiary of Hasbro. Magic deals with some similar themes, and like D&D has had thematic updates continuously released since its inception. Hasbro is one of the largest toy manufacturers in the US. They're aware of the controversy, and have a financial interest in keeping their products clean enough to avoid future controversy. I can recall one card I've owned from the mid 90's which had an inverted pentagram printed on it, but since then they've updated their company policy such that they can no longer use words or symbols commonly associated with Satanism.

The other thing I'd add, there's a phenomenon that occurs in US culture, about once a generation called Satanic Panic, where some particular facet of pop culture is rumored to be satanic, which spawns a lot of unfounded fear. D&D was one victim of this. Rock music was another. One relic of that that survived was "back masking," the idea that evil messages could be hidden in songs by playing them backwards. But, you can find demonstrations on YouTube demonstrating that this is more psychological projection than anything else. Another is "backronyms" where a meaning is assigned to something after the fact. Promoters of this satanic panic falsely claimed that KISS stood for Knights in Satan's Service, and AC/DC stood for Antichrist, Devil's Child.

We are, currently, in the midst of another satanic panic. Conspiracy theorists are claiming that there's a global cabal of Satan-worshipping politicians and Hollywood elites who are cannibalizing children. You can look into any of these, look how easy they are to pick apart, as a way of demonstrating how the satanic panic works.

posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2024 12:00:58 PM

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Answers

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TrappedPrior (RotE)
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My mom basically says that this game is dangerous, caused people to commit suicides, had devil worshipping in it.

Unsupported claim. If someone wants to say DnD caused suicides, they need to provide evidence, which your mother hasn't done.

Wondered why I was arguing with her because she was there and I wasn't.

Just because she was there at the time and you weren't doesn't mean what she's claiming is true. The only way we can know for sure is to look at evidence, which she hasn't provided. We also don't have any a priori reasons to believe people are more likely to attempt suicide because of a tabletop roleplaying game.

She pokes fun a little bit at me trying to look for evidence because "there's probably cases of people doing bad stuff and it just wasn't reported on, or nobody knows about it"

This is close to the conspiracy theory fallacy. Lack of evidence for a claim cannot be turned into evidence in favour of the claim by means of clever excuses. If such a popular game led to a significant increase in suicide attempts, this would be rather difficult to cover up. Media outlets wouldn't have a vested interest in not covering it (what, are they all in the pockets of DnD?)

I don't want to COMPLETELY discredit her experience with her being on this earth for way longer than I have been.

Someone being older than you does not mean you ought to defer to them. Plenty of older people grew up with certain beliefs that became discredited as time marched on, yet they don't update them, because of ignorance, fear, or stubbornness.

There's no rational link between DnD and people killing themselves, yet your mother chooses to believe it.

She is also a better critical thinker than I am so I could be missing A LOT of things. Thank you. 

Not to be rude, but it doesn't seem like it.

answered on Thursday, Jan 18, 2024 03:07:18 AM by TrappedPrior (RotE)

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AI Fallacy Master
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Well, roll for initiative, because this is a battle of wits and wisdom checks!

Firstly, your mom is using some classic logical fallacies. Her statements are filled with the aroma of a fresh baked Appeal to Authority – just because she was around during the 80s doesn't make her an expert on Dungeons and Dragons or its potential dangers. Grasping her trusty "I was there" spear doesn't necessarily make her arguments hit any harder.

What's this in her other hand? Oh, it's the +1 Sword of Anecdotal Evidence. She might recall reports of suicides and devil worship from back in the day, but without objective studies or data, this is just a fearsome personal experience weapon that's ineffective against the scales of scientific evidence.

Her final weapon is the powerful Cloak of Confirmation Bias. "There are probably cases of people doing bad stuff that just wasn't reported." Well, probably is not 'definitely.' With that sort of defense, she could argue that the Teletubbies are actually a secret operative group – who knows what they do when nobody's looking?

Now, for you, dear adventurer: do you harbor a Bias Shield of Stubbornness? Possibly. Could you be wielding the Blindfold of Irrationality? Maybe. But your evidence-based points and willingness to question both your mother's arguments and your own assumptions show that you're actively training in the Art of Critical Thinking.

Just remember: even the greatest heroes of legend started as low-level characters. Keep rolling those d20s, and you'll level up your critical thinking skills in no time. And remember to always check for traps - intellectual and otherwise.
answered on Thursday, Jan 18, 2024 01:15:03 AM by AI Fallacy Master

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