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Ms fame

Complex question fallacy

*Do you condemn Hamas ?* 

Isn't a fallacy ?

 Complex question fallacy?

Because it presupposes that all of that happening start on 7 Oct ..and Also justified what isreal is doing ,whereas according to the UN reports Gaza is the world's largest open air prison . 

For Hamas, many intellectuals like Norman Finkelstein said they are freedom fighters . 

This question "do you condemn Hamas?" Presupposes that it is a terrorist organization and whoever doesn't condemn them is a terrorist sympathizer.

 

So due to the presuppositions this question "do you condemn Hamas?"have I consider it a fallacy.

 

asked on Saturday, Dec 30, 2023 12:51:59 PM by Ms fame

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David Blomstrom writes:

This is a classic example of a loaded question, and I don't agree that it isn't a trap - at least in the proper context. Israeli officials, in particular, are clearly in attack mode when they ask officials from other countries if they condemn Hamas. If they answer "No," or if they don't answer at all, then they are vilified by the "Jewish lobby," and they could face repercussions from the U.S. The Jews have even warned college students that if they criticize Israel, they can forget about finding a good job when they graduate.

That's what I call a trap.

posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2024 01:46:26 AM

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Answers

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Bo Bennett, PhD
4

This is not at all a fallacy. Very simple question. You can substitute "Hamas" with anything and it would still be a simple question:

Do you condemn...

Israel?
The Catholic Church?
God?
Satan?
Republicans?
Democrats?
Santa?
etc...

I think you are presupposing too much presupposing in the question :)

Let's simplify this form even more...

"Do you like ice cream?" We wouldn't say this is a fallacy because presupposes ice cream is delicious and whomever disagrees is a hater of all things good. Although that very well might be the case.

answered on Saturday, Dec 30, 2023 03:06:27 PM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Matt writes:

I agree that there is no fallacy, but the question is disturbing in ways similar to the use of fallacies.  It is an "unfair" or "trap" question in that in forces the answerer to accept or reject a single strong judgment ("condemn") about a complex thing (organization of people that has existed for a while).  "Condemn" everything about it, everything it stands for or has ever done? Yes or no?  Careers too frequently implode when people "mishandle" questions like this by trying to apply nuance and engage in a meaningful discussion.
So, question: Is there a similar ....framework, or taxonomy or ontology or whatever we would call it...for the way we describe logic and logical fallacies that applies to questions? A body of knowledge for how to precisely explain what is wrong with "Have you stopped beating your wife?" questions and questions that are otherwise loaded with unfair assumptions or choices? Thanks. 

posted on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 07:21:37 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:

[To Matt]

I agree it is a poorly worded question. But it is no more a trap than any question. The malice rests with the one doing the asking, not the question itself. Back to my ice cream example, if I asked someone if they liked ice cream and they answered: "No" I can rant about how they hate all that is wonderful in the world, if they answer "yes" I can rant about how they contribute to the torture of cows through their consumption of dairy. This doesn't make the question problematic; it makes the person problematic.

The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is fallacious because there is a clear implication that cannot be denied... the person was/is beating their wife. "Do you condemn Hamas" contains no such clear implication. As mentioned, it is question that may require a nuanced answer rather than a "yes or no".

Perhaps there should be fallacy (or at least a named manipulation tactic) for when someone demands a yes or no answer to question that requires nuance. We see this all the time. I think the problem is that it is highly debatable in many cases what and when an answer does require a simple "yes or no".

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 07:57:03 AM
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Matt writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Yes, I think the essence of the problem is questions that demand a yes or no, when the substance of the question "should" require more nuance.  As you point out, the "should" is an open arena of opinion.  I wish there was a more developed, accepted way to think about this topic.

I can quibble a little with the ice cream example, in that liking or not liking ice cream is pretty specific, and there is weak logical basis to extrapolate the answer to apply to all things wonderful in the world.  I think the Hamas question may be better analogized to: Do you like the world? Which (unfairly) forces you to net out your appreciation for ice cream (and thousands of "good" things) against your disapproval of thousands of "bad" things to a single yes or no answer.  It is that netting, not extrapolation, that is problematic with the yes/no questions.  (But I get that what is unfair netting is in the eye of the beholder as well; some may think "Hamas" is a very specific thing about which to have an opinion, and others that "ice cream" is hopelessly general, if one wants to start unpacking ingredients and other variables!)    

[ login to reply ] posted on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 08:49:57 AM
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Dr. Richard
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I see the issue here as fuzziness. Part of critical thinking is to state the issue in clear and concise terms. The definition of all words involved cannot include “muddy” or less than strictly understood concepts. Or, as Kettering said, “A problem well-stated is a problem half-solved.”

The question posed here requires the reader to assume many facts not in evidence, in that those facts are not stated, but assumed. Therefore, we cannot do a logical analysis.

answered on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 12:54:21 PM by Dr. Richard

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Phillip Goldstein
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I don't think a question can be fallacious.  It can be poorly worded.  In this case, the proper response should be another question, i.e., "Well, what specifically have they done that one might consider worthy of condemnation?"

answered on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 10:59:11 AM by Phillip Goldstein

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Mr. Wednesday writes:

It is possible for questions to be fallacious. They can often be worded in such a way that they bake some assertion into the question with the goal of having it accepted without proof. The original post references the complex question fallacy specifically. Another common example is Just asking questions.

Consider this example: "You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists" is an obvious example of a false dilemma . Rephrasing it as a question "Are you with us, or are you with the terrorists?" doesn't fundamentally change the false dichotomy being presented. In either case, you could ask for elaboration, present alternatives, etc. but that doesn't make the initial statement less fallacious.

posted on Sunday, Dec 31, 2023 02:42:17 PM
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Alan Wells
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Let's evaluate the requirements for the Complex Question Fallacy.

Requirement one: Must have a presupposition built in.

A serious problem with the definition of the Complex Question Fallacy is that it doesn't describe exactly how to determine whether there is a presupposition. What are the requirements? To provide a definitive answer, a psychological study would need to be conducted, asking participants if they had some subconscious bias from the question to condemn Hamas. That isn't going to happen in an impromptu situation. This problem of not having a definitive way to determine whether there was a presupposition or not creates a situation in which each person makes a subjective determination of whether they feel the question presupposes something. Because of this subjective determination, the person who feels that the question has presupposed something meets the requirement of the Complex Question Fallacy. Because of the current situation between Israel and Gaza, the media coverage every day, and the rhetoric that is used, it is not unreasonable to think that the question could be a biased attempt by the person asking the question to condemn Hamas without stating it explicitly. And therefore, it protects the person asking the question from being accused of making a false claim. And that is another requirement of the Complex Question Fallacy. The name of the Complex Question Fallacy could be misleading. The question doesn't need to be complicated. It can be a "loaded question" or a "trick question."

So, if a person who encounters this question feels that the question is presupposing that Hamas is a terrorist organization, then the requirements for the Complex Question Fallacy have been met for that person. Hopefully, you can understand the problem with the subjective judgment of each person in determining whether there was a presupposition or not. For the person who doesn't feel that there was a presupposition, they could state that the Complex Question Fallacy doesn't apply. But it doesn't apply to them .

Imagine that we decided to set a standard for whether there was a presupposition or not. And the standard was that the majority of the population felt that the question presupposed something. This would be difficult to establish. Again, the problem with evaluating whether the Complex Question Fallacy was committed is that a definite way to establish whether a presupposition was committed is impossible unless you could "read someone's mind" and know their intentions. Of course, you could ask them directly. "Do you condemn Hamas, and is the question presupposing that?"

Given what I have presented, I could state that the Complex Question Fallacy has been committed because of the current situation, which affects the context of how the question is perceived. It's not unreasonable to suppose that, given the current situation, the question presupposes a bias to condemn Hamas. And if there is a presupposition, then a requirement for the Complex Question Fallacy has been met.

I conclude that the Complex Question Fallacy is difficult to definitively prove, and subjective to the person evaluating the question. How is it proven whether there was a presupposition or not? If you had god-like powers and could know the intentions of everyone, then you could know whether there was a presupposition or not.

Obviously the situation between Israel and Hamas is one of the most contentious situations in the entire world right now. So, assuming that there could be bias and presupposition in any question containing the word Hamas isn't unreasonable. I'm not trying to answer what the solution to that problem is. I do not want to make any generalizations that could be misunderstood, and I am not making an attempt to determine who is right and who is wrong.

answered on Monday, Jan 01, 2024 04:28:23 PM by Alan Wells

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AI Fallacy Master
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A: Well butter my biscuits and call me a turnip! YA got me squirmed into a donut hole here, sonny! This hot potato yer tossin' my way is sure, as ya say, a "complex question fallacy". Pardon my cornpone, but you've sneakily gift-wrapped two pigeons in a peapod! By askin', "Do you condemn Hamas?" yer assumin' I've branded them as varmints to begin with! That's like askin' me if I've stopped usin' my grandmother's ol' bloomers as a parachute - that'd presuppose I was using 'em in the first place! Grandma would have my hide!

Yer also suggestin' that if I don't condemn Hamas, I'm all cut from the same cloth - a fox in the chicken coop. That's cannier than a cartload of monkeys! It's like sayin' that just 'cause I lick the spoon after makin' my world famous pecan pie, I must run a clandestine bakin' operation! Plausible, but bananas.

So slap my knee and call it a hoedown, this question sure is lop-sided as a tumbleweed in a twister!
answered on Saturday, Dec 30, 2023 12:52:43 PM by AI Fallacy Master

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