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Shawn

Colin Powell

Where is the logical fallacy here? 

Colin Powell was fully vaxxed and yet he died from complications from Covid-19. Therefore, the vaccines do not work.  

asked on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 03:56:15 PM by Shawn

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Answers

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Jason Mathias
4

hasty generalization Fallacy because only a small sample size is used. A cherry picking Fallacy because they ignore all the other people who have not died and who have died unvaccinated. And also this is anacdotal evidence which is weak.  

answered on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 05:48:13 PM by Jason Mathias

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Bo Bennett, PhD
4

non sequitur. The conclusion does not follow. However, this is assuming a reasonable definition of "work," as well as consistent with what is being claimed by the makers of the vaccines and the researchers that study the vaccines. It might the case that the argument and reasoning is solid; it's just that the arguer has their facts wrong. If they are under the impression that the vaccine will prevent 100% of all people who get the vaccine from dying, then even one death would prove that the vaccines does not "work." The problem appears to be a compete lack of understanding what vaccines do.

answered on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 05:30:23 PM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Shawn writes:

I would add that although Powell was fully vaccinated, he had a lot of the preexisting conditions that are known to make the virus more dangerous. He was 84, and he had cancer and Parkinson’s disease; a dangerous combination, say health experts. See as reference www.washingtonpost.com/he. . .

posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 05:55:46 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:
[To Shawn]

All good points. But in an example like the one you presented, they are not necessary. Focus on the major problem(s) before allowing yourself to be sidetracked with the details... and possibly addressing an argument not being made. For example, if the one making this argument thinks a vaccine doesn't work because someone died of the disease the vaccine provides protection against, discussing pre-existing conditions is pointless because they appear to be under the impression that the vaccine must be 100% effective to work.

[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 06:03:07 PM
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Shawn writes:
[To Bo Bennett, PhD]

Yes, that is a valid point ---

[ login to reply ] posted on Monday, Oct 18, 2021 09:22:42 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

Out of curiosity, what makes this a non sequitur rather than jumping to conclusions?

Intuitively you could say 'jumping to conclusions is a valid argument that isn't fully developed yet', while a non sequitur is just a point-blank invalid argument. But non sequiturs do not follow because there is a disconnect between premise and conclusion - in other words, it is not a 'fully developed' argument.

So what else do you think separates them?

EDIT: 

Little or no evidence is provided or reviewed.
Conclusion is made.

This makes more sense...but surely you could still say the same for non sequitur?

Maybe 'non sequitur' is reserved purely for conclusions that are irrelevant to the premises, while JTC is more specific and to do with decision-making (I notice all the examples are about judgements on action).

posted on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2021 07:33:00 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:
[To Rationalissimus of the Elenchus]

jumping to conclusions is one of those borderline fallacies that is included because of wide acceptance as a fallacy, but personally, I think it is more of an example poor reasoning that can take place outside of an argument. A non sequitur is certainly a fallacy and perhaps a bit more formal. There is cross over, but jumping to conclusions seems to require a rational (not necessarily reasonable) unstated premise and/or the plausibility of the existence of evidence that would justify the conclusion. Consider:

1. I have 3 pennies.
2. A piece of gum cost 3 pennies.
C. Therefore, Vaccines don't work.

The conclusion is irrational and would not fit jumping to conclusions but would fit non sequitur . So jumping to conclusions would be a subset.

As for the argument in the OP, I can't imagine any evidence that would justify the conclusion. The conclusion just doesn't follow.

[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2021 07:47:21 AM
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richard smith
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Nobody ever claim the vaccine was 100% effective plus it denies other medical conditions that he had at the time. Hasty generalization.

answered on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2021 03:39:15 PM by richard smith

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David Blomstrom
1

LOL - I'd call it a red herring (straw man?).

Colin Powell was 84 years old. He had some kind of blood cancer.

This begs the question did he really die of Covid in the first place? Or was he close to death and anything from Covid to a bee sting could have pushed him over the edge?

I also like the cherry picking answer someone else suggested. I'm not vaccinated myself, but I understand that many people have been vaccinated as many as four times and are still advised/required to wear masks, and they can apparently still get Covid.

In the meantime, I'm not optimistic about ever reaching the age of 84, even without blood cancer. Working in a building filled with about 500 people seven days a week with only a handful of reported Covid cases (zero fatalities), I'm not optimistic about getting Covid, either.

Guess I'll have to find another way to die. ;)

answered on Tuesday, Oct 19, 2021 09:07:43 AM by David Blomstrom

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