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Dr.Bruce Barron

are there any fallacies?

Yesterday during lunch my little niece made an argument as to why pop quizzes are not a good idea for both students and teachers. To be completely fair, I feel there's something wrong with it but I can't quite point my finger at what it is exactly. It went something like this:


It doesn't make sense for you to give pop quizzes to your class, Professor Jones. It just makes a lot of extra work for you and makes the students nervous. Students should not need pop quizzes to motivate them to prepare for each class

asked on Monday, Jun 27, 2022 11:23:01 AM by Dr.Bruce Barron

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Dr.Bruce Barron writes:

But pop quizzes do make sense. Whether it causes more work for the professor should be of no concern of the student. Unnanounced quizzes makes students nervous only if they are not keeping up with their work . She claims that students keep up with their work so pop quizzes are unnecessary because they are all motivated to keep up. This being the case pop quizzes prove the student right or wrong. Furthermore pop quizzes have a practical value from the professors perspective. She is wrong. None of what she says makes any sense to me.

posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2022 10:32:39 PM

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Answers

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Trevor Folley
2

I've arranged the argument into premisses and conclusion,

P1: Pop quizzes make a lot of extra work for teachers
P2: Pop quizzes make students nervous
P3: Students should not need pop quizzes to motivate them to prepare for each class

C: It doesn't make sense for teachers to give pop quizzes to their class

P3: might be an example of the moralistic fallacy 

The conclusion could follow from the premiss, 'Students do not need pop quizzes to motivate them to prepare for each class' as this indicates that there is another way to do it that might not involve the unwanted consequences indicated in  P1 and P2.

The conclusion does not follow from, 'Students should not need...'

For it to do so would require your niece to assume that if something should be the case, it is.

 

 

answered on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2022 05:30:06 AM by Trevor Folley

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Arlo writes:

I like Trevor's re-statement as premises and conclusion.  It helps make more obvious the elements of the discussion.

In addition to the premises he provides, there's at least one other implied premise that is missing from the list but probably in plan behind Adam's niece's reasoning ... that premise would be that there are only 3 criteria determining whether pop quizzes are good (or that the 3 premises provided represent an exhaustive list) ... work for teachers, student nervousness, and student motivation.  If these were the only 3 criteria (the implied premise I mentioned), then the logic would flow ... except that I would suggest that the implied premise I added is false.

And, in the false premise department, I see Trevor's revision to "Students do not need ..." as helping the argument by changing P3 from a value statement.  From the perspective of the overall argument, this revised statement would seem to be a false premise.

I see fewer issues with Adam's niece's logic and more issues with the validity of some of the assumptions she's making.

posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2022 09:46:19 AM
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Trevor Folley writes:
[To Arlo]

You draw attention, Arlo, to an important distinction,

The soundness of the premisses as distinct from the validity of the logic

I think the validity of the logic is evident when we replace 'should' with 'is' and abstract the assumptions:
[I've included your helpful addition]

A causes B and B is undesireable
A causes C and C is undesireable
A is unnecessary
There is no further relevant information
Therefore - A is undesireable

The logic is entirely valid. Based on this information alone, it is hard to conclude anything other than A is undesireable.

As you point out, however, the assumptions are just that.

So the rule modus ponens can be applied.

If P then Q [If the assumptions are true then the conclusion is true]
P [the assumptions are true]
Therefore Q [the conclusion is true]

But - it's a big if.

NB.
If the premisses are unsound, in that they are not true, we need to be careful not to fall into the trap of denying the antecedent. Even if her premisses are untrue, Adam's niece might be right that it doesn't make sense to give a class pop quizzes - just not for the reasons she gave.

[ login to reply ] posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2022 11:39:47 AM
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Bo Bennett, PhD
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This is a should argument (or value-based ). This means how strong or weak the argument is, is based on the value one assigns the pros and the cons. So extra work for professor and nervous students are the cons. What are the pros? Weighing those require a value judgement. I see no fallacies here.

answered on Monday, Jun 27, 2022 11:54:08 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Kostas Oikonomou writes:

Maybe cherry picking (if pros are ignored intentionally).

posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2022 11:09:02 AM