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Kris

What's wrong with this logic?

95% of all crime is caused by the conditions of poverty. There is no such thing as reform without eliminating poverty, by including the entirety of our citizenry adequately. 

asked on Friday, Aug 09, 2024 01:42:26 AM by Kris

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Answers

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AI Fallacy Master
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The statement you provided contains several logical issues, such as overgeneralization, unsupported causation, and potential ignoring of other factors. Let's break down these issues:

### Overgeneralization
The statement "95% of all crime is caused by the conditions of poverty" makes a sweeping claim without providing empirical evidence or acknowledging exceptions. Overgeneralization happens when a conclusion is drawn based on insufficient or non-representative evidence. While poverty may contribute to crime, attributing 95% of all crime to poverty oversimplifies the issue and ignores other potential causes such as education, mental health, societal factors, and individual choices.

### Unsupported Causation
The statement implies a direct causal link between poverty and crime by saying "95% of all crime is caused by the conditions of poverty." This is an example of a **causal fallacy** because it establishes a cause-and-effect relationship without sufficient evidence. While there might be a correlation between poverty and crime, correlation does not imply causation. There are many complex and interrelated factors that contribute to crime rates.

### Absolute Statements
The phrase "There is no such thing as reform without eliminating poverty" is an absolute statement and falls under the fallacy of **false dilemma** (or "either/or" fallacy). It suggests that the only way to achieve reform is by eliminating poverty, ignoring the possibility that multiple strategies can work together to mitigate crime, including but not limited to educational initiatives, mental health resources, community programs, and policy changes.

### Ignoring Other Factors
The statement focuses exclusively on poverty and neglects to address other important contributing factors to crime. Crime is a multifaceted issue with roots in various social, economic, and psychological factors. By focusing solely on poverty, it demonstrates **confirmation bias**, which is the tendency to search for, interpret, and recall information in a way that confirms pre-existing beliefs or theories.

### Lack of Nuanced Reasoning
The logic presented lacks nuance by failing to consider that poverty itself is a complex issue influenced by various dynamics including unemployment, lack of education, systemic inequality, and more. Effective reform likely involves a multi-pronged approach that addresses these interconnected issues comprehensively.

In conclusion, while poverty is indeed a significant factor contributing to crime, saying it accounts for 95% of all crime and that eliminating poverty is the only path to reform is logically flawed. Addressing crime requires comprehensive strategies that take into account multiple contributing factors and devising policies that are informed by a broad range of evidence.
answered on Friday, Aug 09, 2024 01:42:41 AM by AI Fallacy Master

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Mr. Wednesday
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Economists, sociologists, and psychologists, among other subject matter experts, have done a lot of research into the crime-poverty connection, and have pretty solid evidence that poverty is a strong contributing factor to crime. Both in terms of correlation, and causation - the most obvious being that a person in poverty may be forced to resort to crimes like robbery and drug dealing out of desperation when they have no other means to provide for themselves. But there's also evidence that stress and malnutrition in childhood can permanently affect a person's ability to control their impulses, and that impulsivity can be fueled later in life by financial stress, and by lack of access to treatment for mental illnesses. However, that poverty causes 95% of crime, or that there even is an agreed upon number for this, I find a bit suspect. I'd want to see a citation for that.

The idea that reform can only happen if poverty is completely eliminated would be a false dilemma . There are a lot of ideas out there for how reforms can happen, some of which involve reducing poverty. For instance, a city I used to live in launched an initiative to find feuds brewing on social media, and have a team intervene to resolve the conflict before it turns into real violence. Even reforms that reduce poverty without eliminating it entirely have reduced crime.

answered on Friday, Aug 09, 2024 11:54:46 AM by Mr. Wednesday

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Dr. Richard
-1

Always check your premises. Here you have unsubstantiated premises that “poverty causes crime.” Have the proponent provide evidence of the proposition before continuing the conversation.


Actually, it is the reverse: crime causes poverty. Here is a short essay I wrote on the subject some years ago. Update it by how companies are leaving high-crime cities, leaving people unemployed and the population under served.


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“Social scientists and public officials have long identified poverty as a ‘root cause’ of crime or, at least, as a significant ‘risk factor.’ Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius (121-180 A.D.) saw this linkage and declared, ‘Poverty is the mother of crime.’” Psychologist Dr. Stanton Samenow, in Psychology Today, shows this statement is false. 


I agree: Crime causes poverty, not the other way around. People who claim poverty causes crime are typically those who justify forcibly taking wealth from one person and giving it to another. Both viewpoints lead us to think about economics.


Despite what some say, economics is not a dry subject. Economics is the study of how people use of limited resources that have alternative uses. There has never been — and there will never be — enough of everything to satisfy everyone. Everything is scarce at some level.


If each resource had only one use, the questions would be simpler. But virtually any resource can be put to many alternative uses. For example, petroleum, iron ore, or even water, can produce an almost limitless number of products. How does “society” decide how much of each resource to allocate to each of the many uses? Every society must answer that question by adopting an economic system. The chosen system determines whether the people living in that society will be prosperous, poor, or in between. 


Crime vs. Planning and Prosperity


What does crime have to do with economics? First, crime affects how people plan for the future. Management experts Wayne Gable and Jerry Ellig, Introduction to Market-Based Management, explain how street crime affects business planning, wealth and customers:


 If lawbreaking becomes widespread, it is much harder for people to accomplish their goals, because the behavior of other people is too unpredictable. An urban store owner faced with the threat of looters, for example, will try to protect himself from uncertainty by carrying a smaller stock of merchandise and charging higher prices to pay for a security system. As a result, the threat of looting harms not just the store owner but all of the customers in the surrounding community.


Gable and Ellig also explain how respect for, or disrespect for, property rights negatively affects productivity and harms the produces and the buyers of products:


 A corn farmer, for example, fully plants his acreage because he knows where the boundaries are, and he knows others respect them. If the boundaries are in dispute on one quarter the property, he probably will not invest as much time and money in planting that area as he would in the areas where property rights are certain. 


 If a gang periodically burns his crop or if the government periodically confiscates it, he will invest less time and money in developing that farm. Many people in the modern world, from residents of America's inner cities to inhabitants of war-torn countries, are in a position little better than the farmer beset by bandits—and for similar reasons. Prosperity slips away when the rules of just conduct break down, because people lack the predictability needed to make long-term plans and investments.

 


Causes of Poverty


What happens when the government rewards indolence, conflict, and power-seeking, and fails to protect or (worse) actively works to punish those who work hard, innovate, or provide services to others? It should not take much thought to conclude the general standard of living will suffer. 


When the standard lowers to a given level, it is called poverty. On the individual level, it matters not whether what you produce is stolen by thugs or a “legitimate” government. The results are the same: Producers are themselves impoverished, and they will turn to things other than producing for the pleasure of bums.


The riots we see across the United States, with the looting and physical attacks upon people, provide ample evidence of this truth: crime causes poverty. To understand this clearly, let’s follow the sequences of incentives and actions.


When riots and looting occur frequently enough, Macy’s leaves Chicago, Target and CVS leave Minneapolis. Businesses leaving because of crime in these and other cities are too numerous to list. Large companies are damaged and move locations, but the hardest hit are the small businesses — the ones that local customers know and love. 

 


Downward Spiral of Destruction


Samenow explained the sequence in 2014, and we see the same truths in the 2020 riots. 


A person saves for years to open a business. He or she rents space, buys equipment and works hard. The business grows and people are hired to help. The riots come. Thugs walk the streets. Customers are afraid to enter. Thugs break in, take what they want, and destroy the rest. The businessperson has no way to earn a living, or pay rent, or pay wages. Yesterday, the business provided jobs, products, and services — today it closes. Those things disappear.


Like the farmer beset by bandits, the businessperson has no reason to clean up and rebuild because it will happen again. Without police protection, criminals run society. The small businessperson has to pick up and go someplace else. As Elon Musk said, “If you don’t make stuff, there’s no stuff.” Thus, leaving the thugs and politicians with no stuff left to steal. Everyone loses. 


Wealth is not created by riots or destruction. 


Crime causes poverty. 

 

answered on Friday, Aug 09, 2024 10:41:32 AM by Dr. Richard

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