Question

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Ed F

What Fallacies Is Painting A Group Because of Some Bad Apples?

Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau argued that the the trucker convoy protesting vaccination mandates  needed to end their protests, and as part of his argument described them as right wing white supremists because a few racist symbols were seen among the crowd.  In other words, he attempted to delegitimize the entire group of protesters because of a small group of bad apples.   This would appear to be a hasty generalization turned into an ad hominem insofar as he was painting the entire group as racist.  Any other thoughts?

asked on Wednesday, Feb 09, 2022 06:58:17 PM by Ed F

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Shawn writes:

I happen to live in Ottawa, so I know what is going on and I am following closely what is taking place. The PM's comments are spot on. I agree with him 100%. This is a coordinated effort to overthrow the government via mob rule much like the Jan 6th nutjobs. 

posted on Wednesday, Feb 09, 2022 08:57:22 PM
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Ed F writes:
[To Shawn]

OK.  Let me ask the question differently without referring to the trucker convoy or any other specific situation.  

What fallacies are involved in painting an entire group with some negative or even despicable epithet based on the words or behavior of a small handful of the group?   Metaphorically it's painting the entire barrel with a negative brush due to the conduct of a few bad apples.  Pundits on both sides of the aisle do this to groups they strongly disagree with.

[ login to reply ] posted on Wednesday, Feb 09, 2022 11:20:03 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:

Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau argued that the the trucker convoy protesting vaccination mandates  needed to end their protests, and as part of his argument described them as right wing white supremists because a few racist symbols were seen among the crowd

Claiming at all of the trucker protestors are 'white supremacists' because a few racist symbols were (almost inevitably) seen among the crowd is a hasty generalization, yes. If those symbols are seen it only suggests some of the truckers might be racist, not all of them, or even most of them.

EDIT: I'm an idiot. It's not a hasty generalisation; it's closer to nutpicking as Dr Bo pointed out!

Leaving this here as evidence of my failure to live up to the values of a true Rationalissimus...

posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 06:05:42 AM
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Ed F writes:
[To Rationalissimus of the Elenchus]

In your defense, I think it is a Hasty Generalization even though Nutpicking is a much better fit.   

(What is the fallacy of assuming a correct answer is wrong because another answer is better?)

[ login to reply ] posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 10:31:13 AM
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Shawn writes:

Just as an FYI and not really a response to the question, here is an oped regarding the unfolding events taking place in downtown Ottawa in today's Ottawa Citizen

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/blackstock-farha-mazigh-neve-five-questions-about-human-rights-and-the-ottawa-trucker-protest

posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 11:37:44 AM
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Ed F writes:
[To Shawn]

It is true that one's biases often dictates how people see such events.   You don't hear too many people who condemn the events of January 6 talking about the riots in U.S. cities where people were killed and businesses burned--and vice versa.  (I believe this is "Confirmation Bias")

[ login to reply ] posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 12:12:14 PM

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Answers

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Arlo
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... and another "chime in" from Ottawa.  Criticizing a larger group because of actions of a minority can certainly be considered as the nutpicking fallacy .  (From my observations, racist symbols, signs and actions certainly were present, but in relatively small numbers compared to the other signs and actions on display.)  Whether one supports or opposes the activities going on in the streets of Ottawa, so far, I haven't seen much evidence that overall those involved are all (or even mostly) right wing white supremists with racist symbols.  One could argue that the comments were ad hominem (guilt by association). (However, I'm not sure if guilt by association is intended to be unidirectional or if it can function in either direction.)  Most examples of guilt by association I've seen were cases where an individual is (perhaps wrongly) viewed negatively because of association with a group that's considered in a negative light – this example seems to have turned the association around ... the group is viewed negatively because of association with individuals that are negatively-viewed.  

As I understood Mr. Trudeau's comments (from what I heard and read as edited versions on TV, Radio, and print media), I agree with Ed F's assessment in that he attempted to delegitimize the entire group of protesters because of a small group.  That's not a particularly strong argument!

Clearly, as Prime Minister, he needs to present reasons why those assembled on the streets of Ottawa should disband; however, I don't see the presence of a comparatively small number of negative symbols as the best (or even a good) argument – there are lots of others justifications he could have used that would have directly addressed the issue more strongly.

answered on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 10:45:20 AM by Arlo

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Bo Bennett, PhD
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Have a look at nutpicking fallacy . There is debate over how many nuts make the group as a whole justifiably nutty.

The following is my opinionated rant and is only somewhat related to this post, so be forewarned.

As mentioned, we in the US have seen something similar with the Jan 6th attack. This is also similar to the racial riots/protests that took place all around the country previously. A group of protesters/rioters of any significant size are rarely ubiquitous. Just like the general population, there are extreme elements, and those extreme elements are loud and difficult to ignore. The "innocent protester" needs to realize that they provide both cover and legitimacy for the extreme element that cause serious damage. They need to consider this a cost of exercising their right to protest. It may still be worth it to them, or when considering their role in a far more destructive and nefarious plan, they may reconsider their "benign" participation. The bottom line is, as a group, each member is far less "legitimate" because of their role in providing cover to the extreme elements. The moment they are aware of what the "protest" has become, they should bow out; otherwise, they bear some responsibility for the harm the extremists cause.

answered on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 07:32:48 AM by Bo Bennett, PhD

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Ed F writes:

Can you clarify the difference between nutpicking fallacy and overextended outrage ?  

It would seem the latter is more of a fit for disparaging a group based on a few bad members.  Thanks

posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 06:03:02 PM
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TrappedPrior (RotE) writes:
[To Ed F]

I think the latter has a more emotional component. It's a form of poor reasoning where a member of group X does a bad thing, and their case is used to imply that this is the normal for group X, for the purposes of hating on that group. Nutpicking would be a bit more general.

[ login to reply ] posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 06:37:58 PM
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Bo Bennett, PhD writes:
[To Ed F]

I would agree with you in that Nutpicking is more about pointing out individuals and overextended outrage is more amplifying negative characteristics of the group. Also, I see overextended outrage as bias that resembles the confirmation bias... if we have animosity toward a group, we will focus on the bad members and ignore the good, then add in that emotional component. Nutpicking is more of a deliberate tactic by people well aware of what they are doing.

[ login to reply ] posted on Thursday, Feb 10, 2022 08:05:53 PM